I'll join in - not a rant, just a realistic assessment IMO .... The reality is that for less than $2,000 you could upgrade to a 2.0L, use the existing ECU, wiring harness, alternator, everything ... with a bolt in application. AND, keep the SRF within its current power/weight configuration AND run the gambit on the available motors and stock. AND, the engine is so close that owners could phase into the new engine at will instead of being forced into a mandatory change in xx years. Give the 2.0L guys an extra 25lb to carry if you think they have an advantage, but they do not.

The drivers are the key to this car and are already so good at it that they really do not need additional power. What they need is lower cost and good reliability which will result in higher participation. Most of the SRF folks drive so well already they can run the SRF with some of the bigger cars and do it in style. So power is not an issue. Cost – reliability.

If you are really paying, or charging, $8K for a long block 4 cyl Ford then it's time for sure ... they are ~ $2,200K (retail) in Q=1 and they need absolutely nothing to become a "race" engine in the SRF other than a baffle in the oil pan and some tuning of the ECU to remove things like the EGR valve, brake setting and the injector timing. The lower end of these 4 cyl. engines are good enough for turbo's and the kids are getting 200 Hp out of them all day long with very good reliability running low boost. MUCH more demanding that the current use of the SRF engine. Dismantling a new OEM long block is foolish, certainly not necessary and a complete waste of money.

Racing flywheel -- $50 ... no idea what a racing flywheel really looks like but for $35 you can get an OEM lightened /balanced. All can be matched but the fact is that it will gain you just about nothing so why bother? Just another way to waste money on something not needed.

A quality stage two SPEC clutch is <$250 (retail) .... even the stage one is leaps better than the Ford OEM.
There is absolutely no need for a different slave cylinder at all.

If you use a 50% under-drive pulley for $65 you can toss the custom pulley on the existing alternator away and get better reliability, off the shelf as a bonus.

There are perhaps 2-500,000 2.0L SPI motors available. One with a fresh quality overhaul sells for ~ $2,500 outright. That engine will be around another 20 years, it can be found almost anyplace and it will bolt in and play. The 2.0L is an excellent engine, makes ~110 hp bone stock and with a modest tune will do about 115-118 Hp. Heads, parts, everything is readily available and it runs fine/great on 87 pump gas all day every day. You can run the dyno 24/7 but the fact is you are not going to move the power around much on this or the current engine. You will get virtually nothing measurable from shaving the head or adding a thicker gasket other than premature failure. For another $60 you can totally eliminate the valve float problem in all of these engines from over-speeds. I can't imagine what that has not been done already. Trying to trick the crank sensor or the throttle body or fiddling with the ARF is a waste of time as well. Mumm brothers did over 90 pulls with all sorts of gyrations and the biggest difference was less than 2 Hp. Which also included the cam timing pulley mod, fuel pressures, oil pressures, crank sensor, etc.

These engines are what they are and the 2.0L does well because it uses the larger valves like the current Mexican engine and the HO engines. These engines flow a lot of air compared to the stock 88 Hp 1.9L engines. More air, more fuel and a bigger bang.

Out of ECU’s … not a chance unless you qualify it with “Ford ECU's programmed by FORD” You can buy 1.9 ECU's for less than $20 by the truck load at the junk yards. For another $25 you can program it and for another 50 cents you can seal it. Electronically it is identical. The ECU is a non-issue. If you want to upgrade the ECU and wiring harness to a 1997+ then you can get the knock sensor (98 block) and the IRM motor control but it is not necessary. The engine will run fine on the current ECU and a $35 controller. The Focus engine is not compatible because of the mounts.

So the point is you don't need all this stuff and you certainly do not need to spend $10,000 to do a $2,000 job and in the process de-value the entire fleet. Who are the winners here? I feel for the old timers who already went through the Renault conversion, then the tires and now the wheels and now the entire engine, electrical.

The SRF is a very good car, easy as dirt to fix ... I would stick with a known and keep it simple.

Dog Licked - didn't mean to rain on your parade, I really just wanted Erik to chime in and say "yep, this is all accurate and here is my take on it..." which he did. My concern was with one of the initial responses that to me just read as "oh heck, another instance of the man screwing us over". I disagreed with that assessment and simply wanted to state as such.

If information is vetted (meaning from a reliable source in a position of knowledge) and Enterprises hasn't said "hey don't tell anyone this", then by all means this forum is a good place to get the info out.
It sounds like yours was (vetted) and it has generated some quality conversation. This is just the tip of the iceberg for this topic, methinks.

Rex makes some good points as to expense and availability. Eric was the 2.0 ever in consideration for the new engine?
Thanks

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/419565/19 ... ort/page-3

Who knew? Rex has all the answers! Rex, have you raced a SRF?

Show of hands, let Rex or Mike do the development on this change?

steve kramer wrote:... Show of hands, let Rex or Mike do the development on this change?

There ain't going to be no vote.

I am going to try to ignore specific numbers because once a number gets stated this early on a project like this, it is almost guaranteed to be exceeded.

IMHO, car prices are artificially compressed (for whatever reason), the difference between the highest and lowest priced cars are probably around 25%. But the effort and cost of upgrades, maintenance, and enhancements on the best cars probably cost more the amount Erik is talking.

My feeling the cars that get upgraded will probably sell for the same amount as the top SRF cars are selling for now (or maybe a couple thousand more). And I suspect a new car with all the upgrades will not be <numbers that Erik mentioned> more than a current new car is (how much effort does Enterprises put into finding obsolete stuff for new cars?)...

The ECU / wiring harness is a no-brainer. All the $600 Aim Solo's will be able to collect everything we do with our $3500 systems. I submit that a new wiring harness would pay off in labor / hassle within 1 year on 50% of the cars out there.

Dave (needs a tag line) H.

P.S. All you Texas guys are brutal!

Given that a change to the driveline package is inevitable (it's "when/to what", not "if") - we couldn't have a better team at Enterprises to oversee such a program than the folks in place there right now. Count your blessings and start putting some bucks in the piggy bank.

Eric – As long as were are updating the motor and saving 40 or 50 pounds how about your team add a few pounds back in and design in a removable member in the engine bay so that we don’t have to pull the whole dam engine package to remove the transmission? Just a thought, I’m not sure it’s possible but it sure would be nice.
Oh, and with the new horse power will we be lifting in the kink at RA?

steve kramer wrote:Who knew? Rex has all the answers! Rex, have you raced a SRF?

Show of hands, let Rex or Mike do the development on this change?

Sorry Steve I'm not available and you gave it away when you opened your mouth but you are true to form so you get half credit.

And yes, I have done all of the things I suggested, very successfully, and did so for 4 years. I'm just average.

My only point was to share a viable cost effective option without all the chatter about "race" engines and racing flywheels and replacement ECU's. The folks in the community drive so well they just don't need it.

However, I've sold my SRF and can say after coming from a T-1 Corvette the SRF was the best and most fun car I have ever owned. I was fortunate and after my first head gasket with the sealed engine and $3,000 later I got very interested in a viable option for my use.

Best advice ... keep it simple and do so with knowledge and care.

My periodic reminder that we miss as many comments / posts / questions as we catch is due...ignoring is another method too.

However, on Bill's comment about the removable member. We decided no, but with an internal to the transmission slave cylinder, removing the engine to service this is the one "is that really necessary" item on our minds. So...maybe I should get back to you on that and re-table it.

When asking why not SRF, the top replies were:
1. Not quite fast enough
2. Hard to drive, handles weird
3. Sounds like Poo

When Asking former Renault drivers what did we gain / loose:
1. Agility and fun to drive factor was a negative
2. Sounds worse
3. Launch sucked eggs, we felt like we were all in teh R&D process, not customers!

So cross these answers and the feedback from 14 CSR's etc

We must:

A. Not fuck up (is it going to delete that word?)
1. Maximize fun to drive! We feel this can only be done with a dramitic change in vehicle weight balance. Also Goodyear is getting some tires ready to test in the winter...tweaks (dry only )
2. Get back up the class food chain in speed.
3. Make the car as much a race car as possible...engine, brakes, ECU (we could add all kinds of features for almost free in the new ECU..rain map, pit speed limiter etc)
4. Vroom Vroom noises please (Pence has a recording)

Notice no one said it's too ugly! So please paint your cars in ways that do not exaggerate the less pleasant features...I swear some of you got this back assward!

We will test, test and test...in public and ENCOURAGE the test drivers (this is you not some hired experts) to post and chat and gossip. If something isn't popular with the testing drivers...you aren't going to get it shoved down your throats!

I for one am looking forward to the changes. You're not going to please everyone - but the path forward sounds well thought out. The cost is hard to hear right now. But if it's done in increments, that's a little easier to swallow. If the friggin' economy starts to turn around, and they lift my salary freeze at work, I'll breathe a sigh of relief.