Here is some more info from the 3 Gen3's that weighed at Road Atlanta last weekend. Jean Luc was 1582 with 2 gallons of gas. His car is fairly new and has all the newest stuff and light weight body.

Ken Walters was 1578 with 2 gallons of gas. I don't know any info about the car.

Tray Ayers was 1585 with 1/2 gallon of gas. He also had the newest stuff but blamed the extra weight on heavy body.

1550 is NOT a good number for the Gen3. I personally would like to see 1580. Come on Clay help a brother out

Am I correct that a driver of 225 is supposed to be able to hit the min???

At the June Divisional at Blackhawk Farms, the Elite Autosport GEN3 came in at 1597 after Saturday's race with zero ballast. Prior to conversion it was generally viewed as a lite car with lite body work.

This is an evolving issue that I am sure will get more and more attention as more cars hit the track.
At Road Atlanta I came in at 1585 as Brian said. I noticed this two weeks ago Savannah when I first took the car to the track. I had heard of the car coming in below 1500 lbs but that was with a light Mike.

My bodywork is heavy.
Nose: Min: 35 Currently = 58
Center: Min: 25 Currently = 45
Tail: Min: 27 Currently = 35
That’s 51 lbs heavy. The rest of the car is production or really close to it.

1585 becomes 1534 (not realistic but it’s a data point)

So the body work is 51 lbs heavy. The tail is the newest and is the one closest to the min weight. I don’t think it right to expect people to maintain bodywork right at the min. However, I also don’t think it’s right to set the class weight on bodywork that is much heavier than it could be. If we add weight to each bodywork minimum to account for some amount of repair over the life of the bodywork (10 nose, 5 center, 5 tail = 20 total) that may be a more realistic number.
That would put the weight in the 1560 range. Maybe we split the diff with the 1580 number and call it 1570? That’s 100 lbs less than the current 1.9 L.

I don’t know what the right number is, but it has to be based on the facts and what new cars will weigh.

Tray

Why can’t we just take the difference between the weight of the parts that come out of the Gen2 and the weight of the Gen3 parts that go back in, and back off the 1670 using that number?

We had universal peace at 1670. Why mess with anything else?

Brent

Someone must be listening to my calls, I was offered just what Brent offered by someone today. They have all the stripped parts off a SRF and we ship a complete GEN3 kit for their customer tomorrow...unpack and weigh as a bundle. Everyone will be Greene with envy over this GEN3 when done I am sure.

I liked 1550 lbs, but there are weight additions with the airbox and final plastic intake (both just arrived last week, the intake just in time to replace the leaky interim intake manifolds I mentioned in the News). So, the original R&D cars are lighter than final kits (until they do the required updates). I am getting sure that I will need to put 1560 lbs in for the first submission of rules. The ball is in my court, not Mike's now. Someone has to take the heat alone.

My last comment for the next little while is this. 1670 for SRF was seen as a frozen number for a number of years. 1560 for SRF3, or even an update to that, is fluid for at least the next 18 months. I won't be debating, but I will be listening!

Erik - No debate required from you, but what weight driver was the 1560lb limit based on so that we can have a fair and balanced debate with fellow drivers?

When the Ford conversion took place, the comparable weight difference based on parts alone should have moved the weight to 1640, but the powers-that-be decided to up the weight an additional 30 lbs., which made the car much more of a handling "pig" than it should have been compared to Renault trim (and people purposely overweighted the nose to balance the poor weight distribution.) I hope we don't continue to see more "fat" added for the sake of overweight "bodywork".

Geez - I think I'm out and they drag me back in! I'll try to keep this short but it may be a Dennyesque response.

Since Erik is the only arbiter of the weight and he is listening I will direct my thoughts to him.

1. When the Ford first came out the first race was at the 93 Runoffs (won by Keith Scharf!!) - the existing Enterprises gang weighed all the SRF's and came up with 1640#. The problem was no one had weights in their car. So the weight was skewed in favor of the light guys. I think the ford conversion added some 100#. The SR was 1580#. So that was an instantaneous 40# disadvantage against the 25% of the class who exceed 225#. Eventually the weight was raised to the current 1670# - BUT also many other items became mandatory - foot pans, Hans devices, etc. So the heavy guys (or girls) are still being penalized relative to the original SR concept of having a race car class that was equal for all. SRF is only equal for about 75% of the drivers.

2. No one ever quit the SR/SRF class because they had to add weight to their car. But over the years many drivers have quit who couldn't get close to the minimum weight and they either went home or changed classes.

3. When the minimum for the Tail is 27# but a new tail is 35# that doesn't seem right. I worked very hard (my $ and someone else's labor) last year to lighten my body work and couldn't get the tail below 34# and I think my entire body is still about 25# over minimum.

4. 25% of the class drivers are over 225#. Probably 15% are over 250#.

5. In the last great weight debate the shrill voices of the skinny guys screeched that adding weight plates to the car was a safety issue - the car wasn't designed for extra weight, etc. And their argument that adding weight makes the car unsafe now disappears because the new engine just took off 120# or so.

6. There are a few Big Boys that are able to overcome the weight disadvantage and win races including National Championships - the Brian's (Scholfield & Sullivan), Scott Monroe, John Annis (although he is to be congratulated for losing a lot of weight), Lee Fleming and even Denny is a borderline big boy. I'm sure there are others but I don't know who they are. But all of these guys have gone to extremes to cut weight - expensive grinding down of body work, extensive labor to lighten the car anywhere possible, etc. The above guys also have extra talent and big kahunas. Most of us other big boys just have to live with the disadvantage.

7. My old running argument is that if weight isn't important why do the F1 teams spend millions to save even a few pounds (kilos for them)? We've all watched the F1 races and heard David Hobbs talk about weight being so important and how the cars turn faster laps at the end of the race due to fuel burn lowering weight. Physics are physics - they apply to the super high horsepower F1's the same as to our lowly SRF's.

8. When you say that the current weight is acceptable to all that isn't true. We (big boys) had and lost the great weight debate because the competition committee said that a majority of the drivers had voted to not increase the weight. So a minority of about 25% isn't really happy but have to accept the result.

So Erik you now have the opportunity to fix an old wrong. Take the total weight differential between the old ford and new ford kit, deduct from the 1670# and add 30#. Open the body weights up and increase the maximums (I remember a few guys with 80# noses in the early days). That way the skinny guys can just add fiberglas resin and still feel safe.

And that should have the result of 250# drivers being equalized.

Seems simple to me but I have a simple mind.

Regards - Clay

ps - see you at Daytona Mr. Scholfield

Clay I am flattered you didn't include me in the big boy group However, the reality is...well, most of you have seen me

I am not going to get into the debate... but, why is it OK for a little guy paying someone to ADD fiberglass and resin to a body but its not fair for the big guy paying someone to grind away fiberglass to lighten it up?